Panel Discussion
BILL: All right. Let's meet them. An actor and college student whose roles have included "Party of Five" and "My Giant," Rider Strong. There's Rider. Hey, welcome back.
RIDER: Good to see you again. Thank you.
BILL: Thanks for coming.
RIDER: No problem.
BILL: His films include "True Blue" and "Educating Mom" and he's also the voice of batman on "Batman Beyond," Will Friedle. Yeah, Will. Thank you for coming.
WILL: Thank you.
BILL: A talented young actress with her own poster, website and in-line skating video -- I had that, too. Danielle Fishel, yeah. Hey. Congratulations on all that.
DANIELLE: Thank you so much.
BILL: Thank you for coming. And an accomplished actor in films and television and a spokesperson against domestic violence, Ben Savage, right over here. Ben. Okay.
BEN: How you doing?
BILL: All right. Well, I guess I'm the oldest one here.
DANIELLE: No!
BILL: So I wanna start out with something that's probably gonna make you all mad, 'cause that's what I do.
DANIELLE: Please do.
BILL: Okay. I think they should raise the voting age to 25.
BEN: What's voting?
BILL: What's voting?
DANIELLE: What's the voting age now? Just kidding.
BILL: Do you know what it is?
DANIELLE: Yes -- 18.
BILL: 18, okay. Do you know when they made it 18?
DANIELLE: No.
BILL: Right there. I rest my case.
RIDER: Oh, that's --
BEN: I think if we're gonna --
BILL: When did they make the voting age 18?
BEN: That was an amendment, wasn't it?
BILL: You're right.
DANIELLE: Yeah, Benjamin.
BEN: See, your public dollars are hard at work.
BILL: The 26th amendment in 1971. Before that, it was 21.
BEN: I think if you're gonna be made to pay taxes at our age, then you should definitely be allowed to choose who your leaders are. We're all forced to pay taxes by the U.S. government --
BILL: Because you're a rich TV star. Most kids don't pay taxes.
WILL: Okay, I'll do you one better. They're gonna put a rifle in my hand and put me in some strange country, I'm gonna vote for who's gonna put me there.
DANIELLE: Right.
BILL: I have an answer for that.
RIDER: I think if you're willing -- if you're at an age, when you're 18, to go and die for your beliefs, you should be able to go in the voting booth.
BILL: Let me tell you why that's a fallacious argument. Because, when you are in the Army, you want stupid, young people. That's how they're -- no --
RIDER: How passionate you are --
BILL: All you want is young people who are moldable, who will do the sergeants --
BEN: You want fighting machines.
BILL: Fighting machines who will do what the sergeant tells them -- not think for themselves. That will be what saves that young person's life.
BEN: That's what the Army needs.
BILL: That's not what you want at a voting booth.
BEN: But, when you're in the --
BILL: So they're different things. You shouldn't say, "well, if you -- "
WILL: You don't want stupid people fighting for your country.
BEN: But you want people who aren't gonna say on the battlefield, if the colonel says, you know, go kill this guy, they're gonna be like, "well, I have moral qualms about that."
BILL: Right.
BEN: You want people who are gonna just act without question. And, unfortunately, that sort of contradicts what we're saying, when, you know, you're of voting age. So we want you to think, but, you know, when you're on the battlefield, we don't want you to think. It sort of contradicts it. But, I don't know --
WILL: Uh, he can get into the whole military thing.
RIDER: Everybody -- I mean, I've had more political discussions with people my age and got into more passionate debates with people my age than older people. I think there's a tendency, once you reach the age of 25 or 30, or as you get older, to start thinking that you were stupider, that you weren't, you know -- but we make up so much of the population. I mean, we make probably more of the population right now, as young people --
BILL: That's not true. It's the baby boomers who make up the largest segment of the population. You just never hear about them 'cause it is your $@*!%# that are being kissed all the time.
BEN: Oh.
DANIELLE: Oh, hey.
BILL: It's true. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you guys something. When I was your age, there was never somebody your age on the cover of a magazine that wasn't a teenage magazine. Nowadays, because you guys have not decided on brand loyalty yet, that's who the advertisers kiss -- $@!\*%.
BEN: But there's a demand for young --
BILL: That's not your fault.
BEN: But there's a demand for that. That's what the advertisers are looking for. If they're in a magazine saying, "well, we want to advertise for an acne medicine," you know, they're not gonna put some 7-year-old in the ad and say, you know, Bob Whatever, you know, is advertising it. You want young kids because most young kids are purchasing these products. And, I mean, I don't think you can blame the advertisers for putting younger people on.
BILL: Oh, you can.
WILL: You can't equate the times. I mean, you can sit there and you can say, "well, you know what? There weren't young people, you know, we didn't have to worry about, you know, young people being on the cover of magazines when you were a kid." You also, you know, didn't have to worry about kids going into your school and shooting everybody else that's around them.
BILL: How does that -- ?
WILL: It's doesn't -- it's a different time. It's a completely different time. I mean, society is changing. And, right now, it seems everything is based for the teenage --
BILL: I feel sympathy for you that you have this burden. I mean, I think it would be a terrible burden to have the world revolve around you like this country does.
WILL: It's not a burden.
DANIELLE: I don't think it's a burden at all.
WILL: I don't consider it a burden.
DANIELLE: I know. Also, talking about putting young people to be covers of magazines, nowadays, like, a lot of adults, like my parents and my friends' parents, they're young parents. And they're also looking at those kids, and it's kind of sad, but they're to re -- they're kind of regaining their youth by looking at that. I know of a lot of parents that like to see the young kids that are on the magazines.
BILL: Well, they like to see 'em. I don't think they like to read about 'em. I like to see Britney Spears on the cover of magazines. She has absolutely nothing to tell me, or anybody else, about life.
DANIELLE: Okay.
BEN: That's true. I mean, my parents are obviously not gonna read about Britney Spears, and, you know, say, "Oh, well, you know, she makes a good point." "I could learn a lot from, 'Oh Baby Baby.'"
BILL: She makes two good points.
BEN: I mean, my parents are not -- I mean, my parents are 50 years old. They're not gonna -- sorry, mom, sorry, dad. They're not -- I mean, they're not gonna learn a lot. But, I mean, I think that -- people buying these magazines are younger people. I don't think that you get a subscription to "Seventeen" magazine.
DANIELLE: Anyway.
RIDER: I also think there's something to be said for the fact that, in American culture, right now, I think people are -- by the age of 18 we're pressured to be adults a lot more than I think you were.
BILL: Totally.
RIDER: I think people grow up so much faster now. So adolescence is sort of becoming a state that people stay in for the rest of their lives. I think the baby boomers are an example of perpetual adolescence. They're more adolescent than we are sometimes.
BILL: Right.
RIDER: So I think they relate to us, and so they buy our magazines.
WILL: Or try to, anyway.
RIDER: Or try to.
WILL: Yeah.
BILL: They don't have a choice. We don't have a choice, because that's what the advertisers want. They want you. Because you haven't decided what shaving cream you're gonna use yet.
WILL: They're selling the product. If it's gonna sell the product -- you know, if a mangled puppy is gonna sell the product, they'll put a mangled puppy on the cover. It's whatever anybody wants. It's whatever anybody wants. It's true! It's true!
BILL: You know, I'm an animal lover.
WILL: It's true. It's whatever is gonna sell the product is gonna go on the cover of the magazine. If a young kid is gonna sell the product, then they're gonna put a young kid on the cover of the magazine.
RIDER: I think it goes on a really abstract level if you think about it this way. America, right now, is sort of in its teenage years. And I think that --
BILL: You're right.
RIDER: And I think, as a teenager, right now, is the ultimate personification of the American dream, the ultimate personification of the American ideals. That's where we're at, as a culture. So I think that the teenager, right now, is the most important symbol, the most important thing in our country.
BEN: I don't think that's true. I don't think you can, you know, say, "oh, the teenager, we've gotta base everything on a teenager." I mean --
RIDER: No, I'm not saying we have to. I'm saying we're going to. 'Cause that's where we're at. We do.
BEN: Because I don't think -- we look to teenagers for physicality. We look to them for new fashion trends. But we don't look to them to make political decisions, moral decisions --
BILL: No, but they do.
RIDER: Not yet.
BILL: That's the point, is that they put you on the cover of the magazine. And, then, inside, you know, "George" magazine they ask you what you'd if you were President, Britney.
BEN: But, as far as America as a whole, I don't think that what younger kids -- you know, they're there for physical stuff, they're there for fashion trends, but they are not there to set political --
RIDER: Then why are we obsessed with people like Johnny Lang, the blues guitarist? Why do -- or Britney Spears? Or -- ?
BILL: Or Tiger Woods?
RIDER: Oh, yeah -- we're obsessed with younger people doing amazing things.
BEN: That's the media, though. But that's the media.
RIDER: I mean, hold on. But it's not just about looks, though. It's about the fact that this kid picked up a guitar when he was 13, and by the age of 16 he had three albums out, or whatever. Or the fact that Britney Spears, she's 18, she's an amazing singer. All these young -- they're talented. We're trying to -- it seems like everybody is pointing to these people and saying, "see, we can do it when we're younger. We can do it when we're younger."
BILL: All right. Look, I have to interrupt you to sell some stuff to teenagers. We'll be right back.
BILL: All right. We were talking about this generation thing and the fact that you are the most dered to generation -- not just by the media, also by the politicians. You notice any time President Clinton -- who's just the best at it, they all do it -- wants to sell anything, they slap on, "it's for the kids."
BEN: Oh, I am so against that. I think that is all political rhetoric. You know, they don't care about the kids. The kids are not voting for them.
RIDER: Clinton cares.
BEN: Yeah, yeah. Real sensitive guy.
BILL: He wanted to touch young kids.
BEN: "It was all for the kids." I just -- I think that's all political rhetoric. All they're trying to do is trying to impress the parents. And they don't care about the kids. They just want votes. And I just -- "for the kids' sake" is just such an antiquated -- I'm very against that.
BILL: So all the things that they say that they're protecting you from -- and it's always for the kids, they wanna build the Internet for the kids or censor the Internet for the kids, or bomb Europe for the kids, or --
WILL: That was nice of them.
BEN: I appreciated that one.
RIDER: Yeah, that was nice of them.
BILL: -- whatever, stop the media, you know, from poisoning you. Let me ask you, what do you think, really, and in light of what happened last month in Colorado, what do you think really is harmful to people your age? Is it the media? Is that harmful to you? Is that what's doing it? Is it -- what should they be protecting you from?
RIDER: Number one thing -- lack of education.
BEN: There you go.
DANIELLE: Yes. That's exactly.
RIDER: That's the most harmful thing -- lack of sexual education, lack of gun education, lack of education in all these different areas. You know, people are freaking out because kids are having sex too young or shooting people. And it all comes down to, if you educate kids about stuff, if you let them know what's going on --
BEN: When you say education, do you mean like in the public school system or parents -- ?
RIDER: Yeah, I mean -- just in every level. Ignorance is just killing our generation. Yeah, all the way around.
BILL: So it was ignorance that was the culprit in Colorado? Do you think that's what was wrong?
BEN: I think it was the lack of parental guidance --
WILL: Parental control. I mean they said that one of the kids that went in there, the father called halfway through what was going on -- halfway through the shooting, called -- before the police knew who was in there, before the police knew there were two gunmen, called, and said, "I think my son might be one of the people that are in there involved in this." Now, obviously, if he's gonna call halfway through, there had to have been some signs beforehand that something was gonna happen.
BILL: Oh, signs? There were bombs in his room.
DANIELLE: Exactly.
WILL: So where are the parents there? I mean, do you walk in and say, "Oh, there's bombs in his room, maybe I should talk to him"?
BILL: Yes.
DANIELLE: The websites even that they had. There were things on the website that these kids have obviously had to have the means to put together a website. They were posting things. There was things on the Website that said, "April 20th everyone's going to pay."
BILL: Right.
DANIELLE: And there were kids that weren't even in the high school that knew of this website. So, I mean, if the parents have a computer in the house and they have to -- that's just -- do they not even speak to their kids?
BILL: So, if you have that on your Website, and you had a bomb on your dresser --
DANIELLE: Right.
BILL: -- your parents would know and say something?
DANIELLE: You know. Maybe.
BILL: You think they would?
RIDER: Oh, yeah.
BEN: But it wasn't just that day that obviously he got steered off course. I mean, there had to have been a pattern over the course of years.
BILL: They were building these bombs --
WILL: One article said it was for a year.
BILL: A year they were planning this.
BEN: The thing that really got me mad was they were evaluated by child psychologists, these two kids. And both of them predicted to have great lives. And both of them were predicted by school counselors that say, they were going to be very successful. And that leads to the validity and the necessity --
BILL: They were not stupid or ignorant, which is why I take exception to what you said about education. I think this was a very good school, an affluent school.
RIDER: Well, then, maybe, if you extend the vocabulary I'm using -- education also in the home. I mean, parents.
BEN: Right, educating all parents.
BILL: The parents were -- you know, these were not dumb, white-trash parents. These were --
WILL: But, I mean, how could they have been oblivious to what was going on if you walk in and there's -- ?
BILL: But, that's a different thing than education.
RIDER: They weren't involved in the kids' lives at all. They weren't involved. They weren't worried about their kids.
WILL: They were ignorant.
RIDER: The school was worried about the kids. To the school, the kids were just another number.
BILL: But, at that age, don't all kids shut out parents? My father -- "why do you lock this door?" "Because you don't knock when you come in." So everything -- I had a poster in my room of Sophia Loren behind another poster of Mr. Spock. I would --
DANIELLE: Okay. This school -- talking about the schools be ignorant, too. The school is trying to say that they didn't know of any such trenchcoat Mafia thing that's going on.
BILL: Right.
DANIELLE: They took out a page in the yearbook. You have to pay for those pages that are in the back of the yearbook.
BILL: You're right.
DANIELLE: They had an entire page that was dedicated to the trenchcoat Mafia that you have to send in that has be approved by all the school board. I'm sorry, my school -- I go to a public school -- my school knows of all that stuff that's going on. My principal and vice principal, they walk around and they can tell you of all the cliques. "I know who's in that clique. I know what's going on there."
WILL: Well, everybody's passing blame at this point. I mean, that's what it is. It happened. And, now, instead of saying, "Well, we've got a big problem, we have to fix it." We're, instead, saying, "Well, we've got a big problem, whose fault is it?"
BILL: But shouldn't we? Isn't there a lot of blame to go around? Okay. I'm behind again. I gotta take a commercial. Okay.
BILL: Okay. Here we are. This is really turning out great. You guys are better than, I must say, a lot of people who are older.
DANIELLE: Aw. See, look, you're kissing our %&#*$.
BILL: It's true. I am.
DANIELLE: Isn't this what we're talking about?
BILL: But, if you weren't, I'd tell you that, too.
DANIELLE: Exactly.
BILL: My audience knows I'm not nice to anybody without a good reason. Anyway, I wanna ask you this. If you think you're life is gonna get better -- now, I am always hard on people who come on this show and try tell me, or anybody else, how to live their lives. But, from my experience, I will tell you, that phrase "life begins at 40" was true. Life got a lot better -- not exactly at 40 -- but it was certainly better later, than younger. Do you feel that that's gonna be the case? Now, you're not exactly typical, because you're doing so well now, but, do you think life will be better, or do you think it's peaking now?
DANIELLE: Um, I -- I can't wait. Ever since I was really young -- I'm only 17 now -- but, ever since I was really young, I've always thought about, "I can't wait to be older." I've always looked forward to being old for some reason -- and not that 40 is old, my parents are 40. But, I look forward to being that age.
BILL: Now I'll find out I dated your mom.
DANIELLE: You didn't. But I look forward to -- I look forward to being 40. And I see the life that my parents have, and I can't wait to be that age. But, at the same time, I worry about having kids. I mean, I'm gonna -- by the time -- I worry about the life that my kids are gonna be having. Like, I see the life that I live now, and the things that are going on now, and I do worry about being a parent. So I look forward to my life, being 40, but I also worry about the life that my kids are gonna have.
BILL: What are you worried about with your kids?
DANIELLE: Um, I look at like everything that we're going through now, like with this Colorado shooting, and I only hope that it gets better. And I hope that, because we've lived kind of the crazy '90s that we have, and that when we get older and we have kids that like we'll be able to teach our kids -- you know, learn from history kind of a thing.
WILL: Right. Yeah, you don't wanna have to shield them from everything that's going on.
DANIELLE: But I'm like so paranoid --
BILL: And every generation says that. And, then, what every generation does is tries to make it easier for their kids and just screws them up worse.
DANIELLE: Exactly. And that's what I worry about.
WILL: I mean, for a good amount of time, you know, the kids did have it better than the parents. I mean, there was a time, you know, where it was -- you know, the next generation --
BILL: Materially, we do.
WILL: Yeah, materially. The next generation was --
BILL: Every generation does. This kid drove to his shooting in a BMW. "When I was a kid, we had to walk to school for our shootings." "And we borrowed guns and always returned them."
BEN: I don't know. Not to get off the subject, but back to like the 40s thing, about, you know, am I looking forward to life in the 40s -- I think that now -- I'm 18 -- but your 20s, and I guess the earlier half of your 30s, are much more turbulent times, I think. I think you're not sure where your career is going, your family. You're still figuring out who you are, I guess.
BILL: Definitely.
BEN: And I think --
DANIELLE: I think, at 40, you're still gonna feel that way, though.
BEN: I know, but I think --
DANIELLE: I mean I feel like, when I was like 14, I was like, "when I'm 18, it will be perfect." And now I'm gonna be 18 in a week and I feel like, "when I'm 20, it'll be perfect."
BILL: It does get better.
BEN: I think you have more of a grasp of what you want from life, what you're life's about. I think, hopefully at 40, I'll have a family, I'll have kids, I'll just be a little more grounded with my life. And I just -- I think that's what -- I don't know if it's gonna be better, but it's certainly gonna be different. I mean, 'cause I can't say that I don't enjoy life now. I mean, we're all very lucky, but --
DANIELLE: But I think part of the mentality of, like, looking forward to being older, is that you feel like it's gonna be easier. You always feel like life will be easier when like something else happens. Like I always thought, "life will be easier when I'm out of school. Life will be easier when I'm married. Life will be easier when -- "
WILL: I think there's this problem. I mean, I'm very much a kind of person where I think there's -- not necessarily a problem, but I'm thinking maybe you're -- if you're looking too far ahead, then you're not really --
DANIELLE: Living in the moment.
WILL: -- Living in the moment and enjoying what you have now. And if I'm constantly going, "You know, it's gonna get better when I'm 40," -- blah, blah, whatever -- then I'm not looking around going, "I'm really damn lucky to be where I am now."
BILL: But that was what -- you know, some of these kids who seem so disaffect and alienated to do something so unspeakable, I would've liked to have said to them, "you know what? It does get better." Even from 16 to 22. I mean, that is the hardest time of your life that you're going through right now.
WILL: Well, see, that's what amazed me. I mean, I am 22. And I'm at that time of my life --
BILL: You're 22?
WILL: I'm 22. Yeah.
BILL: Get off. [ All talking at once ]
WILL: It said under 20 and I was like, uh --
BILL: Okay. False advertising.
WILL: I mean, I'm 19. No, but it is true. Because I've only been out of high school for five years, but there's already been such a big change in my life. I mean, you really do -- you know I'm starting to grasp a little bit more of who I am and more of --
DANIELLE: And they let you cut your hair
WILL: My hair's gone.
BILL: College kids today are what high school kids were 25 years ago. Their maturity level --
BEN: But, isn't that because you're older and you started looking back on that?
BILL: No.
BEN: I think kids are just always going to change a little.
BILL: Because my parents were World War II parents. The kids who went to college in the late '60s. These parents are baby boomer parents. These kids have kids for parents. And, trust me, I play colleges, I talk to them all the time, they're lame.
RIDER: Oh, I don't think that that's true.
BILL: I mean, as far as maturity goes -- for being out of the House at their age, they are way too immature. They should --
WILL: But, whose fault is that?
BILL: Their parents.
WILL: So, then it's your fault.
BILL: Well, I'm not a parent. All right. Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher Executive Producers Scott Carter Bill Maher Nancy Geller Marc Gurvitz ©1999 Follow Up Productions © ABC, INC. |